The Complete Testimony of Gina Smith
1/24/85
(Following Discussion held side bar:
MR. CONWAY: Your Honor, regarding the anatomically correct dolls. I have no — I stated to you in chambers that I would object to that as being unduly suggestive. I would rather make that objection now as I say, rather than jump every time they’re used and let it be a standing objection.
THE COURT: Yes, you may have a continuing objection to the use of the dolls with this and all of the witnesses.
Side bar discussion concluded)
GINA SMITH, Witness
(Witness sworn as follows:)
THE CLERK: Do you promise to tell what happened?
GINA SMITH: (Nods her head)
THE COURT: She shook her head, yes.
MR. FORD: She just said, yes, your Honor.
*****
DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. FORD:
MR. FORD: Hi.
GINA SMITH: Hi.
MR. FORD: Tell these people your name.
GINA SMITH: Gina.
MR. FORD: Gina what?
GINA SMITH: Smith.
MR. FORD: Gina Smith?
GINA SMITH: Yes.
MR. FORD: How old are you, Gina?
GINA SMITH: Three.
MR. FORD: Three years old?
GINA SMITH: (Witness nods head up and down)
MR. FORD: Where do you live?
GINA SMITH: At Miss Hall’s.
MR. FORD: You live at Miss Hall’s?
GINA SMITH: (Nods head up and down)
MR. FORD: Who’s that sitting next to you?
GINA SMITH: My mommie.
MR. FORD: Do you know what my name is?
GINA SMITH: Mr. Ford.
MR. FORD: That’s a good girl. Did you ever go to school, Gina?
GINA SMITH: Uh-huh.
MR. FORD: Where did you go?
GINA SMITH: To Bonnie Prudence’s School.
MR. FORD: You go to Bonnie Prudence’s School now?
GINA SMITH: (The witness nodding head up and down)
MR. FORD: Where did you go before Bonnie Prudence’s School?
GINA SMITH: E.C.D.C.
MR. FORD: Do you know what your teachers’ names were down there, Gina?
GINA SMITH: Bernie and Stephanie.
MR. FORD: Bernie and Stephanie?
GINA SMITH: (Witness nodding)
MR. FORD: Now, Gina, when you were at E.C.D.C. with Bernie and Stephanie, did Bernie ever touch you?
GINA SMITH: Uh-huh.
MR. FORD: He did?
MR. FORD: Can you show these people where he touched you, Gina?
GINA SMITH: Uh-huh.
MR. FORD: Want to take the dolly and show us where and how? Can you do that for us? Go ahead.
MRS. Smith: Take the doll.
(Witness handed the doll)
GINA SMITH: Right here.
MR. FORD: Let’s show these people how. Tell us how he touched you.
GINA SMITH: Right here and right here and –
MR. FORD: Now, you’re showing us right here. Can you show us how he did that?
GINA SMITH: He touched me like — on this with his fingers.
MR. FORD: What else did he touch you with?
GINA SMITH: I don’t know.
MR. FORD: Did he touch you with some part of him?
GINA SMITH: Uh-huh.
MR. FORD: Can you show us where and how? Show us on this dolly what Bernie touched you with?
GINA SMITH: Right here.
MR. FORD: Right down here?
GINA SMITH: Uh-huh.
MR. FORD: Were his pants up or down when he touched you?
GINA SMITH: Down.
MR. FORD: Could you see something on Bernie when his pants were down?
GINA SMITH: Uh-huh.
MR. FORD: What could you see?
(The child examining the doll)
MR. FORD: What do you call this?
GINA SMITH: Peniey.
MR. FORD: Did you see Bernie’s Peniey?
GINA SMITH: Uh-huh.
MR. FORD: What did Bernie do to you with his peniey?
GINA SMITH: He stick it in my privies.
MR. FORD: He stuck it in your privies?
GINA SMITH: Uh-huh.
MR. FORD: How did that make you feel, Gina?
GINA SMITH: Pretty bad.
MR. FORD: Mad?
THE MOTHER: Bad.
MR. FORD: Did he put his peniey anywhere else, Gina?
GINA SMITH: Back there.
(She’s pointing on the doll)
MR. FORD: Anywhere else?
GINA SMITH: No.
MR. FORD: No? I thought he put it somewhere else.
GINA SMITH: No.
MR. FORD: How about up here?
GINA SMITH: On my tongue.
MR. CONWAY: Your Honor, I would object.
MR. FORD: Remember something coming out of Bernie’s peniey when he touched you with it?
GINA SMITH: Uh-huh.
MR. FORD: What?
GINA SMITH: Nothing.
MR. FORD: I thought something came out?
GINA SMITH: Nothing came out.
MR. FORD: Mommy, could you just tell Gina it’s okay to tell the truth.
THE MOTHER: What do you think came out?
GINA SMITH: I don’t want to.
MR. FORD: Remember some pretend worms coming out?
GINA SMITH: (Witness nods head up and down)
THE MOTHER: What color were they?
MR. FORD: Mother, you can’t do that.
MR. FORD: Where did the pretend worms go?
GINA SMITH: On my leg.
MR. FORD: On your leg. Anywhere else?
GINA SMITH: (Witness shakes her head from side to side.)
MR. FORD: Now, Gina, when Bernie touched you down here — For the record, your Honor, I’m referring to the vaginal opening of the female doll that the witness has already pointed to. When Bernie touched you down there, did something happen to you?
GINA SMITH: (Witness shakes head from side to side)
MR. FORD: Remember something coming out?
GINA SMITH: (No response).
MR. FORD: Did you bleed?
GINA SMITH: I forget it.
MR. FORD: You forgot that?
GINA SMITH: (Witness nods head up and down)
MR. FORD: You remember seeing some blood?
GINA SMITH: Uh-huh.
MR. FORD: You did?
GINA SMITH: Uh-huh.
MR. FORD: What did Bernie do when the blood came out?
GINA SMITH: He scooped it out with scissors.
MR. FORD: With scissors? How did that make you feel, Gina?
GINA SMITH: Bad.
MR. FORD: Gina, what room were you in when this happened?
GINA SMITH: In my classroom.
MR. FORD: In your classroom?
GINA SMITH: Uh-huh.
MR. FORD: How about in the bathroom? Anything ever happen in the bathroom?
GINA SMITH: (Witness nods head up and down)
MR. FORD: Was it morning or night?
GINA SMITH: Morning.
MR. FORD: Morning?
GINA SMITH: Uh-huh.
MR. FORD: Did Bernie ever do something with a jump rope?
GINA SMITH: Uh-huh.
MR. FORD: What did he do?
GINA SMITH: He poked you.
MR. FORD: He poked you?
GINA SMITH: Uh-huh.
MR. FORD: With a jump rope?
GINA SMITH: Uh-huh.
MR. FORD: Where were you when he did that?
GINA SMITH: Outside of my classroom.
MR. FORD: Outside of your classroom?
GINA SMITH: Uh-huh.
MR. FORD: How did that make you feel?
GINA SMITH: Bad.
MR. FORD: Is it scary to talk about these things, Gina?
GINA SMITH: Uh-huh.
MR. FORD: Did Bernie ever tell you a story about the bird’s nest?
GINA SMITH: Uh-huh.
MR. FORD: Tell us what the story was?
GINA SMITH: The baby bird got killed.
MR. FORD: Gina, these people can’t hear you so can you speak up good and loud so they can hear what you’re saying?
GINA SMITH: I don’t want to.
MR. FORD: Do you want to talk about the bird’s nest?
THE COURT: Do you want to use the microphone?
MR. FORD: Can you tell us about the bird’s nest, now? Gina, take a deep breath, think hard. It’s okay to tell.
GINA SMITH: I don’t want to.
MR. FORD: You don’t want to talk about that?
GINA SMITH: I just don’t want to.
MR. FORD: Is it scary?
GINA SMITH: Uh-huh.
MR. FORD: How many times, Gina, do you think that you saw Bernie’s peniey? Was it more than once?
GINA SMITH: Three times.
MR. FORD: Now, do you remember — you remember you went to the doctor.
GINA SMITH: Uh-huh.
MR. FORD: Do you know why you went to the doctor?
GINA SMITH: Why?
MR. FORD: I’m asking you if you know why. Was something wrong with you?
GINA SMITH: Because my privies hurt.
MR. FORD: Your privies hurt?
GINA SMITH: I had to get checked.
MR. FORD: Oh, your privies had to get checked. Did Bernie touch you in the privies?
GINA SMITH: Uh-huh.
MR. FORD: He did. May I have just one minute, your Honor, please?
(Pause in proceedings)
MR. FORD: Gina, remember when Bernie put his peniey on your tongue? You told us about that?
GINA SMITH: (Witness nods head up and down)
MR. FORD: How did that make you feel?
GINA SMITH: Bad.
MR. FORD: Did it make you feel sick?
GINA SMITH: (Witness nods head up and down)
MR. FORD: Gina, that’s all I’m going to ask you now. See this man right here?
GINA SMITH: Uh-huh.
MR. FORD: His name is Mr. Conway. He’s a nice man, he’s going to ask some questions and I want you to answer him just the way you answered me and tell him what really happened. Okay, Gina?
GINA SMITH: Uh-huh.
MR. FORD: You’re a good girl. Thank you very much for talking to all of us. Your witness.
*****
CROSS EXAMINATION BY MR. CONWAY:
MR. CONWAY: Hi, Gina. Getting tired.
GINA SMITH: Uh-huh.
MR. CONWAY: You remember telling the policeman about being tied up and you remember telling the policeman that Eric did that?
GINA SMITH: (Witness shakes head from side to side)
MR. CONWAY: Eric is a little boy that goes to school with you, isn’t he?
GINA SMITH: Uh-huh.
MR. CONWAY: And Eric ties you up with the rope? You told that to the policeman?
GINA SMITH: Uh-huh.
MR. CONWAY: Was it Eric that choked you?
GINA SMITH: No, Bernie.
MR. CONWAY: That happened outside?
GINA SMITH: No, it happened inside.
MR. CONWAY: You don’t remember him touching you on the nose?
GINA SMITH: No.
MR. CONWAY: Do you remember him touching you on the eye?
GINA SMITH: Uh-huh.
MR. CONWAY: You told that to Mr. Ford, didn’t you?
GINA SMITH: On the neck, Uh-huh.
MR. CONWAY: Did you tell Mr. Ford about the bird and the bird’s nest?
GINA SMITH: Uh-huh.
MR. CONWAY: Did somebody bring a bird to your class? To your school?
GINA SMITH: It was a pretend one.
MR. CONWAY: It was what honey?
GINA SMITH: It was a pretend bird.
MR. CONWAY: It wasn’t a real bird?
GINA SMITH: Uh-uh.
MR. CONWAY: Who did that? Was it Bernie or Richard? Who did that?
GINA SMITH: Bernie.
MR. CONWAY: Did Bernie have a bird?
GINA SMITH: No, Uh-uh.
MR. CONWAY: Do you remember when you went to the doctor and you went to the hospital and you talked to the doctor and the doctor said to you: Gina, did anybody see these things happen? Remember the doctor saying that to you? He asked you?
GINA SMITH: Uh-huh.
MR. CONWAY: You remember you told the doctor that Eileen saw that?
GINA SMITH: Uh-huh.
MR. CONWAY: Did Eileen see what happened?
GINA SMITH: No, I was in the bathroom.
MR. CONWAY: You were in the bathroom?
GINA SMITH: Uh-huh.
MR. CONWAY: Who else was in the bathroom?
GINA SMITH: Bernie.
MR. CONWAY: Were any of the other kids there? Eric or Joey or any of those kids there too?
GINA SMITH: Uh-huh.
MR. CONWAY: Who was there besides Bernie?
GINA SMITH: Eric.
MR. CONWAY: Eric was there. Is Eric a big boy or a little boy?
GINA SMITH: A little boy.
MR. CONWAY: Little like you? Maybe this big? Did you tell Eileen what happened? Your teacher, Eileen?
GINA SMITH: (Witness nods head up and down)
MR. CONWAY: What did Eileen say?
MR. FORD: I object.
THE COURT: Sustained.
MR. CONWAY: You don’t have to answer that question. You told Eileen about it?
GINA SMITH: (Witness nods head up and down)
MR. CONWAY: Did you tell anybody else about it?
GINA SMITH: No.
MR. CONWAY: Did Bernie tell you not to tell.
GINA SMITH: (Witness shakes head from side to side)
MR. CONWAY: Was Bernie nice to you in school? Did you play a lot of games?
GINA SMITH: Uh-huh.
MR. CONWAY: Did you play a lot of games?
GINA SMITH: No.
MR. CONWAY: Was he your teacher> Was Bernie your teacher?
GINA SMITH: No.
MR. CONWAY: Who was your teacher?
GINA SMITH: He was.
MR. CONWAY: He was your teacher, okay. Eileen was there?
GINA SMITH: (Witness nods head up and down)
MR. CONWAY: When you were in the bathroom with Bernie where was Eileen?
GINA SMITH: Out of the bathroom.
MR. CONWAY: In the other room?
GINA SMITH: Yes, in the classroom.
MR. CONWAY: Where were the other kids besides Eric? Eric was there with you. Where were the rest of the kids?
GINA SMITH: With Eileen.
MR. CONWAY: And did you tell mommy all about this?
GINA SMITH: (Witness nods head up and down)
MR. CONWAY: When did you tell mommy?
GINA SMITH: A lot of times.
MR. CONWAY: And the bird that you saw was a make believe bird?
GINA SMITH: (Witness nods head up and down)
MR. CONWAY: Did Bernie have some scissors sometimes you said?
GINA SMITH: (Witness nods head up and down)
MR. CONWAY: Did you ever tell anybody about these scissors before, Honey?
GINA SMITH: Uh-huh.
MR. CONWAY: Who did you tell about the scissors?
GINA SMITH: Eileen.
MR. CONWAY: You told Eileen that he had scissors. What did Bernie do with the scissors, Honey?
GINA SMITH: He scooped some blood out with the scissors.
MR. CONWAY: He scooped some blood out with the scissors?
GINA SMITH: Uh-huh.
MR. CONWAY: Did Eileen help him?
GINA SMITH: No, no.
MR. CONWAY: Did anybody help him?
GINA SMITH: (Witness nods head from side to side)
MR. CONWAY: I have no further questions, your Honor.
*****
REDIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. FORD:
MR. FORD: Did Bernie ever do something else to you with those scissors?
GINA SMITH: Uh-huh.
MR. FORD: What did he do?
GINA SMITH: He cut my hair.
MR. FORD: Is that when there was blood from down there?
GINA SMITH: Uh-huh.
MR. FORD: Can you tell us now about the bird’s nest game?
GINA SMITH: No.
MR. FORD: Do you want to tell us?
GINA SMITH: No.
MR. FORD: Is that scary?
GINA SMITH: Yes.
*****
RECROSS-EXAMINATION BY MR. CONWAY:
MR. CONWAY: Who is that right there? Who is that?
GINA SMITH: I don’t want to.
MR. CONWAY: It’s all right.
MR. FORD: It’s all right, no further questions.
MR. CONWAY: I have no further questions, your Honor.
(Gina leaves courtroom)