The Complete Testimony of Peter Hanes
01/24/85
PETER HANES, Witness (not his real name)
(Witness sworn as follows:)
THE CLERK: Hi, Peter, Can you put your right hand up, please? Do you promise to tell what happened?
PETER HANES: (No response)
THE CLERK: Do you promise to tell what happened?
PETER HANES: (No response)
MR. FORD: You won’t be able to say anything except to reassure Peter that it’s okay to answer questions.
FOSTER MOTHER: Okay, sure.
MR. CONWAY: Excuse me, you honor. May we approach the side bar?
MR. FORD: I object, your Honor.
MR. CONWAY: Your Honor, I didn’t hear the boy’s answer to the abbreviated oath? I think that the oath was: Do you promise to tell what happened and what I heard –
THE COURT: Let’s not — if there’s any question why don’t you readminister it?
THE CLERK: Do you promise to tell what happened, Peter?
PETER HANES: I don’t know.
MR. FORD: Peter, do you promise to tell us what happened? Remember how we talked about it?
THE CLERK: Are you going to tell us what happened?
MR. FORD: Are you going to tell us the truth, Peter?
PETER HANES: Yes.
THE COURT: All right.
MR. FORD: I think the answer was, yes, your Honor.
THE COURT: Do you want to ask him some preliminary questions?
*****
DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. FORD:
MR. FORD: What’s your name, Peter?
PETER HANES: (No response)
MR. FORD: How old are you, Peter?
PETER HANES: (No response).
MR. FORD: How old are you, Peter?
PETER HANES: Four.
MR. FORD: Four years old?
PETER HANES: Yup.
MR. FORD: What’s your last name?
PETER HANES: (No response).
MR. FORD: What’s your name, Peter?
PETER HANES: I don’t know.
MR. FORD: What are you looking at, Peter?
PETER HANES: (No response).
MR. FORD: Peter, do you see anybody here that you know?
PETER HANES: I don’t know.
MR. FORD: Who are you looking at right now, Peter?
PETER HANES: (No response).
MR. FORD: I know the person you’re looking at right now. What’s his name?
PETER HANES: (No response).
MR. FORD: May I get down lower, your Honor?
THE COURT: Yes, sure.
MR. FORD: Petey, are you afraid, Peter?
PETER HANES: Yes.
MR. FORD: You’re scared?
PETER HANES: Yup.
MR. FORD: Do you want to talk any more?
PETER HANES: No.
MR. FORD: Why not?
PETER HANES: ‘Cause.
MR. FORD: Because why?
PETER HANES: (No response).
MR. FORD: Something scare you?
PETER HANES: (No response).
MR. FORD: Petey, remember we talked about this before? Remember how you told me some things happened? Can you tell these people what you told me?
PETER HANES: No.
MR. FORD: Why?
PETER HANES: ‘Cause.
MR. FORD: ‘Cause why?
PETER HANES: (No response).
MR. FORD: It’s okay to tell you know.
PETER HANES: (No response)
MR. FORD: Peter, do you know Bernie?
PETER HANES: No.
MR. FORD: You don’t know Bernie?
PETER HANES: No.
MR. FORD: Never saw him before.
PETER HANES: (No response).
MR. FORD: Are you telling the truth, Peter?
PETER HANES: No.
MR. FORD: You do know Bernie, don’t you?
PETER HANES: No, I don’t.
MR. FORD: Never saw him before today?
PETER HANES: No.
MR. FORD: How did you know his name?
PETER HANES: (No response).
MR. FORD: Remember when you were at E.C.D.C.?
PETER HANES: (No response).
MR. FORD: You’ve got a cold? Be a big boy, Peter. Peter, I want to ask you a question. Did Bernie ever touch you?
MR. CONWAY: Objection, your Honor.
THE COURT: Overruled.
MR. FORD: Did Bernie ever touch you, Peter?
PETER HANES: No, I don’t want to talk to him.
MR. FORD: You don’t want to talk to these people?
PETER HANES: No.
MR. FORD: They’re nice people. They just want to know what happened. If you don’t tell them they won’t know. It’s okay to talk to them just the way you talked to me.
PETER HANES: I don’t want to.
MR. FORD: You promised to help. I tell you what, Peter, I’m going to show you something. See this fellow right here? Can you show us Where Bernie touched you?
(A doll is handed to the witness)
MR. FORD: Go ahead and show us, Peter, go ahead.
PETER HANES: (No response).
MR. FORD: Can you show us where Bernie touched you, Peter?
PETER HANES: (No response).
MR. FORD: Won’t you talk to us?
PETER HANES: (No response).
MR. FORD: Are you going to MacDonald’s?
PETER HANES: We were just at MacDonald’s.
MR. FORD: Do you want to go again?
PETER HANES: Yup.
MR. FORD: After you talk with us you can go back to MacDonald’s. Now, show us where Bernie touched you, Peter?
PETER HANES: No.
MR. FORD: Why?
PETER HANES: ‘Cause
MR. FORD: ‘Cause why?
PETER HANES: I don’t like to.
MR. FORD: Is it hard to talk about this?
PETER HANES: Yup.
MR. FORD: Is it scary?
PETER HANES: Yup.
MR. FORD: There’s nothing to be scared of, Peter.
(The child pulls the doll’s zipper down)
MR. FORD: Is that what Bernie did?
MR. CONWAY: Your Honor, I object to this.
THE COURT: Your objection is noted.
MR. FORD: Is that what Bernie did, Peter?
PETER HANES: No.
MR. FORD: What did he do.
PETER HANES: (No response).
MR. FORD: Peter, remember the time you were bleeding from your “P”? What happened to your “P,” Peter?
PETER HANES: (No response).
MR. FORD: What happened to your “P”? Remember you had to go to the doctor?
PETER HANES: (No response).
MR. FORD: May the record show that the witness closed down the doll’s zipper, your Honor?
THE COURT: I can’t see it from here but we’ll let the jurors view whatever they saw.
MR. FORD: Petey, remember the time you were bleeding from your “P”? Remember the time you had to go to the doctor, Petey?
[Note: When Mr. Hanes originally called the police he claimed that blood had been found on Peter's penis. This happened several days after Peter's last day at the school. The doctor, who examined Peter the very next day, found no signs of external trauma or internal infection. During the later civil suit, Mrs. Hanes admitted under oath that she hadn't actually seen any blood, "but he said it hurt."]
PETER HANES: I don’t like him.
MR. FORD: You don’t like me? I thought we were friends.
PETER HANES: I’m not your friend any more.
MR. FORD: What did I do? Did I talk about bad things?
PETER HANES: Yes. I ain’t talking to him.
FOSTER MOTHER. You can talk.
MR. FORD: What’s that, Peter? Talk right in here. See how loud it makes your voice? Watch this: My name is Dan. What’s your name?
PETER HANES: (No response).
MR. FORD: You want to try it?
PETER HANES: No.
MR. FORD: It’s fun, try it.
FOSTER MOTHER: Talk to Mr. Ford.
MR. FORD: Petey, did you ever see Bernie’s “P”?
PETER HANES: (No response).
MR. FORD: Did you ever see Bernie’s “P”?
PETER HANES: (No response).
MR. FORD: Don’t do that, Peter, it makes noise. Did you ever see Bernie’s “P”?
PETER HANES: (No response).
FOSTER MOTHER: Talk to him like a big boy.
PETER HANES: No.
MR. FORD: Peter, these people sitting right here are nice people.
FOSTER MOTHER: Did you look at them?
PETER HANES: No.
MR. FORD: All we want to know is what Bernie did. Unless you tell them — then you can go.
PETER HANES: (No response).
MR. FORD: Show us?
PETER HANES: (No response).
MR. FORD: Are you scared?
PETER HANES: (No response).
MR. FORD: May we suspend with this witness, your Honor?
THE COURT: Yes.
MR. FORD: Do you want to go now? Are you going to talk or do you want to go?
PETER HANES: (No response).
FOSTER MOTHER: Peter, are you going to talk or are we going to go?
PETER HANES: (No response).
MR. FORD: Are you going to talk to us, Petey?
PETER HANES: No.
MR. FORD: I’d like to reserve the right to recall Peter at the appropriate time, your Honor. Perhaps under different circumstances.
MR. CONWAY: May I approach the side bar?
(Peter exits the courtroom)