Police Reports in the Baran Case
Today Sgt. Henault received a call from a Mr. Hanes. That his son Peter Hanes dob 11-06-80, is a student at the EC\DC day care center. That he had come home from school yesterday with or after examination had blood on or coming out of the end of his penis. His son who will be four in November told him that Bernie did it. (Bernie is Bernard Baran of 168 First St. Pittsfield phone [blotted out].
Det’s Collias and Beals went to the center on Francis Ave today at 1:30 pm. We talked with Jane Trumby phone [blotted out]. She is the assistant director.
We were told that as mandated by state law. No child is alnoe with a worker. That Baran is an assistant aid with Pat Colder being the teacher in this class. And as far as could be determined Baran has a good work record.
Ms. Trumby in checking her file, found that about the beginning of the school a complaint was made through the EC DC Sue Eastland, from Mr. Hanes complaining that Bernard Baran was a homosexual and objecting that he be allowed to work in child care. At the time we had not told the Trumby woman who the youth involved was.
We also found that the last time Peter Hanes was in Day Care was Monday Oct. 1, 1984. He was abscent on Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, and Friday.
We left the Day Care Center at 2:08 pm. Another staff worker was to be in the room with Baran for the protection of the children just in case there is something to this complaint.
Jerry Downing called and said he will be working on this case with the DA’s Office. He will be at this phone number [blotted out]. Also Lee Flournoy will be on call.
Complainant: David Hanes phone [blotted out]
Date: 10-06-84 Subject: Indecent A&B
Conversation with James W. Hanes (Peter) age 3 yrs 11 months
Present was David G. Hanes age 29 (no relation)
At 9:10 am David Hanes (no relation, live in boyfriend), Julie Hanes, mother and Peter Hanes age 3 yrs 11 months came into the station to make a complaint on indecent touching at the ECDC. With the mother Julie, Det. Beals took James W. “Peter” Hanes on a tour of the station so that the boy could get to know Det. Beals, make friends with him and be comfortable with him so that an interview could be done.
At 9:30 am Peter, David and Det. Beals went into Captain Dermodys office. Peter was sitting on Davids lap. Det. Beals was sitting on a chair in front of the young boy. We started off by asking Peter if he goes to school. He answered that he did. We asked who his teachers were. If he likes school, if there are both boys and girls in the class. And generally got the boy comfortable talking to us with Det. Beals present.
Peter then told us that Bernie his teacher makes his “pee Pee” hurt and another time Bernie makes his “pee pee” feel good. Det. Beals asked Peter where is his pee pee. Peter grabbed ahold of his crotch area. And said that Bernie makes it go away. And its a secret. During the interview Peter kept telling Det. Beals that this was done by touching. Peter denied that there was any touching other than with the hands and fingers. He told us that touching started on the head part of the body then the feet and then the upper part of the body and he finished telling us that he was touched on the crotch area always saying this was his pee pee. And one time said Bernie makes it bleed.
Talking to the mother she told us that she started seeing her son being different about the end of July. He began to openly fondle himself. He would cry for no reason. Became withdrawn, talked about bleeding and generally his attitude changed.
Note: We talked to Peter about if he would touch Bernie or if Bernie wants to have Peter touch him and he became offensive to the question and became angry and told us no in no uncertain terms. Peter seems to be an intelligent boy for his age and seems familiar about his surroundings and seemed to know the difference between telling a lie and telling the truth.
At about 10:15 am the interview was concluded. The mother and David Hanes requested that they be allowed to spend the weekend with the kids and put off the statement until Tuesday or Wednesday. They will separate make notes for us to conduct the interview and statement.
Date: 10/7/84 Subject: Video taping of interview of James “Peter” Hanes age 4 yrs. old
On this date at 11:00 A.M. went to DA’s Office for interview of James “Peter” Hanes. The interview took place in the victims room next to Grand Jury room. Video tape camera was set up by Fred Lantz, with a Monitor in the Grand Jury room. The interview started with Jane Satullo and the boy in the victim room. In the Grand Jury room was Brian Cummings (DSS) Fred Lantz, Liz Keegan, Gerald Downing (Da’s Office) David and Julie Hanes, and myself.
Jane sat on the floor with the boy, with a male and female doll. Jane started off with just talking with the boy about toys, the dolls etc. The boy undressed the male doll and was asked what the penis was, he replied ” his bone”. She asked him if his father took him to the doctors, and the boy replied ” yes” Asked why he said ” my pee pee hurt”. At one point she asked him ” did someone touch your pee pee, the boy replied “Bernie”, he pointed to hispenis with this answer.
There was more talk with the boy not wanted to talk about hos pee pee not Bernie. At one point Jane asked him how Bernie touched him. The boy said he touched it like this, he then grabbed his pants in crotch area and squeezed his penis.
When Jane tried to get more out of the boy on this subject he wanted to go to the bathroom. He went to the bathroom at 11:30 A.M.
She tried to get more out of the boy but he didn’t want to talk about it. He seemed to be trying to ignore the subject. At one point she asked him again about where Bernie touched him. Again he said right here, grabbed his pants in crotch area and then squeezed his pants.
At 11:59 A.M. Jane said the boy had enough for today and the interview was ended.
Date: 10/13/84 Subject: Bernard Baran Jr. Case
On this date at approx. 11.15 A.M. Julie Hanes along with her son James “Peter” met with us at the Police Dept. Dets. Beals and McGuire drove them to ECDC. On the way Peter told us where Bernie did bad things to him.
At ECDC Peter took us to a store room, which is off Center Coordinator Room. In this store room is a small couch and selfs on the walls. He has told his mother prior to us going to ECDC things happened in a room with a couch and selves on the walls. Once in that room, Peter wanted to go to the bathroom, and didn’t want to talk about it anymore.
Once outside he showed us the playground and said Bernie did bad things to him on the playground. Pictures taken of the above room and playground.
Before going to ECDC was up in Det. Bur. I told him I would show him some pictures and told him to tell me if he knew anyone. I pointed to each picture going 1 to 10. Picture # 4 he turned and pointed to Det. Beals and said ” thats him”. Picture # 4 is a picture of Det. Beals. When I got to picture # 7 which is picture of Bernard Baran the boy said ” Thats Bernie” When we got to picture # 9 the boy said ” hey thats Richard”, the picture was the picture of the janitor Richard Herdman.
I then asked the boy which one of the picture, did someone do bad things to you He pointed to Bernard Baran and said ” Bernie did bad things to me”. I then pointed to Richard Herdman’s picture and asked the boy ” did Richard ever do bad things to you. He replied, ” no, Bernie did the bad things”.
His mother reports the boy has real opened up to her about whats been going on. Told her we would have her in for statement this week. She is keeping notes of what Bernie has been saying to her.
On the above date, at approx. 9:45 P.M., Capt. Dermody had us call his home. When we called Capt. Dermody explained to us that friends by the name of Jim & Judith Smith had called him reporting a possible molesting of their 3 year old child by the same person under investigation in the Hanes case, Bernard Baran, who works at ECDC.
At this time, we returned to the station to answer a call which had come in for us before leaving for the Smith home. While in the station, there was two messages left for us, one to call the Smith and the other to call Brian Cummings of DSS.
I called Brian Cummings at this time and Brian told me that if he should talk to Baran who was involved in the Hanes case that he would like to be there during the interview. Brian was told at this time that we may have another complaint such as happened to the Hanes boy and explained the Smith case to Brian. Brian at this time stated that he would like to accompany me to the Smith home. It was approx. 10:30 P.M. at this time.
Brian arrived at the station and went to the Smith home with me. When we arrived at approx. 10:50 P.M, we were met by Mr. And Judith Smith and their daughter Gina L. Smith, age 3, DOB 6-4-81. Gina of course was scared at this time of the three of us being there, Det. Winpenney, Mr. Cummings and myself. Gina was nervious at this time and did not want to talk to all of us. It was suggested at this time that Judith Smith talk to her daughter while we listened. This also did not work out because of the fear the child had of the strangers. Det. Winpenney and Mr. Cummings left the livingroom area at this time and Det. Eaton tried to make friends with Gina by showing her his badge, letting her hold it, etc.. This had been suggested by the mother and it did make Gina feel more friendly. Gina started talking a little with her mother at this time with Det. Eaton listening along with Cummings and Det. Winpenney in the background. Gina while talking with her mother explained that when she was going to the ECDC school, she was touched by Bernie one time in the privates, Gina stated that she would be standing up when this happened. Gina went on to say that Bernie “petted” her and played the “Bird nest Game”. Asked at this time if Bernie touched her fanny, Gina said No. Gina at this time still nervious and scared did not want to talk about this anymore. Gina told her mother that she wanted to talk to her mother in the hall which was away from all of us (Winpenney, Eaton and Cummings). Judith at this time went out of the room with Gina to the hall. Gina and Judith came back approx. 5 minutes later and Mrs. Smith stated that she had talked to Gina and hat straightened out what Gina was telling us. Mrs. Smith stated that Gina and Bernie one day had played the “Bird Nest Game”. This game was as follows, Bernie found a birds nest with a dead bird in it still in part of its egg and told Gina that if the “make believe” Policemen found out about the bird and nest that Bernie would be in trouble. Bernie had Gina promise not to tell of the bird and nest. Mrs. Smith then stated that Bernie also played another game with Gina and that was played a couple of times. Gina did say that this game was played a couple of times. Gina stated that Bernie would take off Gina’s shoes and sock and Gina would have to take off her pants. Bernie would then play the “Touch Game”. Gina said that Bernie would touch all of her parts on her body. Gina at this time told us that Bernie would put his finger in Gina’s ears, eyes, eyes brows, noses fanny and everything else. Gina also stated that she would only be allowed by Bernie to touch Bernie’s neck and showed with her hand how hshe touched Bernies neck. At this time, Gina got ready for bed while the rest of us talked.
In talking to Mrs. Smith it was found out that this happened before they would pick Gina up according to Gina and that it happened in the bathroom. It was also found out that if Gina did this Bernie promised her and gave her something to eat for doing this with him.
It was also found out that Mrs. Smith is on the Board of Directors of ECDC and found out about the Hanes case from one Carol Bixby, who called her, along with Jane Trumpy. After finding out that this had happened, Mrs. Smith asked her daughter Gina about if Bernie had ever touched her in places that he is not suppose to touch her in. Gina told her mother about what had happened.
It was also found out that Gina was taken out of ECDC because of some management problems that were going on approx. two months ago because of the Smith not feeling that her daughter would be getting the full benefit of the teachers there because of the problems. This was found to be as I said approx. two months ago.
It was found that Gina had had a regular physical by her doctor at that time and nothing was found wrong at that time. It was explained that may be she should have Gina have another examine at this time due to knowing what had happened, this was suggested by Mr. Cummings and us.
When Mrs. Smith was asked if Gina had anything happening to her as far as mood change or anything like that, Mrs. Smith did say that before Gina went to ECDC she was out of the habit of wetting her bed and did not in fact wet the bed. Mrs. Smith stated that when Gina was in ECDC, Gina started to wet the bed again at that time. Mrs. Smith did not think of this till we asked.
There was concern of Gina testifying. Mrs. Smith was told that we try not to get the young kids involved in testifying if possible. Mrs. Smith was told that a statement would have to be gotten from her as fresh complainant and we would see what we could do. Also we will get Rape Crisis involved in this mainly for the parents because they are taking this very hard.
Mrs. Smith will be in 10-6-84 at night for statement.
Where Taken: Pittsfield Police Dept. By Whom: Det. Bruce Eaton
Date & Time Taken: Oct. 11,1984 8:30 P.M.
I, Judith M. Smith am 29 years of age, born on 3-10-55
my address is 492 Holmes Rd., Pittsfield my tel. no. 442-8626
my occupation is Activities Director/Instructor degree of education 15 years
Tonight I have come into the Pittsfield Police Dept. on the request of Det. Eaton to give the detective a statement on the facts that I have learned from my daughter, Gina, age 3 years about being molested and raped by Bernie Baran.
The first time I had heard that there had possibely been something going on at the ECDC school on Francis Ave., here in Pittsfield was on Oct. 5,1984.
On Oct. 5,1984, I had received a social phone call from a friend of mine by the name of Carol Bixby who is the Center Coordinator of ECDC. The call was to inform me at the time of something going on with the school because of being the Secretary of the Board of Directors at that time. Carol that there was or was going to be some complaints coming in from some parents in regards to Bernie Baran, a Teachers Aide at the school possibly attacking the child. Our phone call ended and at that time because of my child going to the school I went to talk with my child about this. Gina had been taken out of ECDC since approx. middle June of 1984.
I would like to say that Bernie has been the only male teacher that Gina has ever had.
When I got off the phone with Carole, I went into Gina’s room and asked Gina some questions. I asked Gina if Bernie had ever touched her in a funny way. Gina looked at me at that time and told me that Bernie did, that Bernie and Gina would play the “Birds Nest” game, Gina said sometimes in Gina’s hair and sometimes in Bernie’s hair. I did not think that Gina at this time knew what I meant so I asked Gina if Bernie had ever touched her fanny. At this time, Gina said to me “he touched my privies sometime.” At this point, I did not know what to do so I stopped talking to Gina about this.
I was upset and did not know what to do so I called Jane Trumpy of ECDC who is the interm director of the ECDEC school. Jane right away told me to contact the Police in regards to this.
AT this time, I called Capt. Dermody of the Pittsfield Police Dept. at his home. I was still not sure if anything could be done about this because of the age of my daughter and wanted to ask someone who I knew about this. I had known Capt. Dermody’s wife. After talking to Capt, Dermody and being informed that the Detectives would get ahold of me, I waited for the call from the detectives.
Shortly, a call came from Det. Eaton of the Pittsfield Police Dept. and I explained to Det. Eaton what had happened. He made arrangements with us to come out to our home to talk to Gina with a worker from the DSS. (Dept. of Social Services.)
Later, I am not sure what time, Det. Eaton, Det. Wimpenney and a Brian Cummings of DSS came to our home to talk to us and Gina.
At the time, it was very uncomfortable for Gina to say anything with the detectives or the DSS workers because of them being strangers. Gina was also still trying to protect Bernie because it was in Gina’s head that Bernie would be hurt by what she called the “pretend Police”. Gina at that time did say in front of the detectives and DSS worker that she had been touched in the privites by Bernie and that it happened one time. Gina told us that this would happen when she was standing, Gina also stated that she was patted and also played the “Birds Nest Game” with Bernie. I asked Gina at this time in front of the officers and DSS worker if Bernie had ever touched her “fanny”, Gina at this time said Bernie did not. Gina was very nervious about telling anyone these things but did want to talk to me in the hall away from the Police Officers and the DSS worker. I could see that Gina was upset talking in front of these people at this time. I went out into the hall of our home at this time because of Gina being nervious about talking with everyone there. When we were out in the hall Gina and I talked about what Bernie had done with her and Gina explained several things to me at this time.
Gina explained that the “Birds Nest Game” was when Bernie and Gina had either found or made a birds nest and Bernie had a baby bird which was dead and still in part of the shell. Bernie told Gina that Gina and Bernie could not let the “make believe or pretend Police know about this bird because the mother bird would be upset if the pretend police came and took the baby bird away. Bernie told Gina they would have to hid the nest and not tell the pretend police about it.
As I can recall Gina also told me about a “Touch Game” that Bernie and she played at school. This “Touch Game” was that Bernie would take off Gina’s shoes and socks but that Gina had to take off her own pants. Gina stated that Bernie would then touch all the parts of her body, ears, eyes, nose, mouth and her privies, meaning her vagina and fanny but Gina wouldn’t mention her fanny that night. I also recall Gina saying after being asked by me if Bernie had ever wanted Gina to touch his penis, that Gina said yes and pointed to her inside of her foot. Meaning that Bernie wanted Gina to touch his “peenie”. This is what it is called in our house and Gina knows that term. At this time, i went back out into the livingroom with the police and the DSS worker and explained all of the information that I had gotten from Gina. Also at this time, Gina had enough of talking and was very tired and Avery Chappell a friend of mine put Gina to bed.
Once Gina was in bed, the police and DSS worker talked with us for awhile and then left.
The next day, nothing was said to Gina at all about Bernie or asked anything about what had happened with Bernie or her. During the day sometime, the Police called and made arrangements with my husband to have Gina and us go to the DA’s office in Pittsfield for a video tape of Gina.
On Oct. 6,1984, at around 6:45 P.M., my husband and I got Gina and left the [illegible] to go to the Police Dept. and then to the DA’s office. The only thing that we told Gina at this time was that we were going to go and see Det. Eaton to get the Police Badge which Det. Eaton told Gina that she could have. Gina was all happy over this.
When we arrived at the Police Dept., we met Det. Eaton, Mr. Cummings the DSS worker and Jane from Rape Crisis. Det. Eaton told Gina that Jane was a friend and Jane and Gina became friendly at this time. We all went to the DA’s office and a video tape was done of Jane interviewing Gina.
The video taping started with Jane talking to Gina. Gina did not want to talk much about the things that had happened with her and Bernie, though she did tell Jane that Bernie did “Bad Things” to her. At this point, Gina wanted me in the video room with her which I was not at that time. I then went into the video room and sat there with Jane while Jane talked to Gina. Gina at this time opened up more and told of things that had happened to her with Bernie. Gina told that Bernie would use his finger to touch her in her privites and took a female doll which was there and showed Jane and I how Bernie would do this. Gina showed us with her finger how Bernie would put his finger in her vagina and rectum and stated to Jane and I that it “hurt” her when Bernie did this. There was an attempt by Jane to tell more about the Birds Nest Game with Gina but Gina wanted to call Bernie on the phone to make sure it was alright to tell about this. When Jane and I would only let Gina make pretend phone calls to Bernie, Gina got very nervious and had to go to the bathroom two times. It was decided at this point that the video taping would end for that day and maybe more would be done in the future.
That night, Gina had a problem with telling that there was a “stick” in her fanny and we had to check for her to insure her that there was not a stick there. The next morning, which would be Sunday, Oct. 7,1984, Gina had a nightmare yelling in her sleep that “I don’t even go to ECDC anymore.”
Nothing was said to Gina all day Sunday, Oct. 7,1984 and we had as much of a normal day as possible.
On Monday, Oct. 8,1984, at approx. Noon time, 12:00 P.M., Gina and I got in the car and I told Gina that we had to go and see Dr. Sheeley, who is our doctor for the children. Gina said to me that we had to go see Dr. Sheeley because of all the bad things that Bernie did to her. I told her that this was why we were going to see Dr. Sheeley. Gina at this point just wanted to make sure that I was not mad at her because she asked if I was mad at her, that Bernie did the bad things not her. I told her that I knew that and I was not mad at Gina. When we got into the doctors office, Gina was very open with Dr. Sheeley on what had happened to her with Bernie. Dr. Sheeley had Gina’s pants off during this and Gina was telling Dr. Sheeley and Showing Dr, Sheeley where she had been touched by Bernie, in her vagina and rectum. Gina was also asked what else Bernie touched Gina with and Gina told the doctor “his penie and mouth”. As I can recall Gina would not say anything else about the mouth. Gina stated that it had hurt her, there was also something said about Bernie’s pretend worm, which I thought may have been his penis. Gina said that she saw the “penie”. Gina also said that there was blood on her privies, meaning her vagina and pointing to her vagina. I asked if Bernie had cleaned up the blood and Gina said that he had. There was also a time that Gina was asked if anyone had seen this happen with Bernie and Gina after asking me what girl and me answering you [illegible, probably mean] Eileen, not thinking that I was putting a name in her head, Gina said yes and after some more questions and the examine, the doctor told me that there was evidence of stretching and lacerations of the vagina and rectum of my daughter. [Smith never seems to have noticed that she had also put Baran's name into Gina's head from the very beginning.]
Since the doctors, everyday, Gina has asked us we we were mad at her because of what Bernie did. We would insure Gina that we were not mad at her and could not asked for a better girl than her. We have not gone into asking anymore questions of Gina.
Today, Oct. 11,1984, before coming into the PittsfieldPolice Dept., I told Gina that I was going to go and see Det. Eaton and tell him what I remember about what Gina told me. Gina was asked by me at this time a couple questions because I wanted to be sure of what she had told me. I asked Gina about the blood that she had on her and asked how that got cleaned up. Gina at this time told me that Bernie took toilet paper with water on it and washed it up. Gina also said that Bernie said “Oh my God”. Gina then said that she was sorry that she said that because Gina is not allowed to say that. Gina did say that that was what Bernie said about the blood. I recalled that at the doctors that there was mention by Gina about something on her legs that came from Bernie, this was evaculation as far as we could understand. I asked Gina tonight about if Bernie put his penie in her mouth and Gina told me at this time that,”Bernie put his penie in my mouth and it squirted pretend worms in my mouth. Gina stated that that made her sick when Bernie did this. But that Bernie showed her the mother and daddy worms coming down her face and Gina laughed and felt better. I checked with Gina again on the person who saw her and Bernie. Gina told me that Stephanie was the teacher not Eileen. I asked her if she was sure it was Stephanie and Gina stated that she was sure.
Witnessed by Det. Eaton
Date and Time 10-11-84 11:00 PM
This afternoon I received a phone call from a Mr.Steven Thompson of 7 Memorial Dr.He told me that his son had been going to ECDC and one of his teachers was Bernard Baran.His son had been acting strange in the past and at one time mentioned that Bernie touched him in his “poo-poo”.Det.McGuire refered this to DSS Ralph Figgey for an interview. As of yet as far as I know we havn’t been contacted.
Date 10-19-84 Subject: Video of Richard Thompson
On 10-18-84 at 2:00 pm, Det, Collias met with Mrs. Thompson and her son Richard at the DA’s office. Also present was Pat Pat Plumbo from the Dept. of Social Services. We all went to the office in the basement set up for interviewing children. Fred Lantz set up the video recorder and the interview started. Present during the interview was the mother, Pat and Richard. Det. Collias stayed in the Grand Jury room, which is next door. Det. Collias view what was taking place on a television.
During the interview Richard told Pat that Burnie touched a little girls nipples. He also touched the little girls vagina and but. Richard also said that Johnny Larson touched Burnie’s penis. And that Burnie put his mouth on Richard’s penis.
After the taping, Fred Lantz turned over to Det. Collias the tape and it was tagged and put in the rape file.
On this date at approx. 2.20 P.M. Marcia Stone Lopez called Det. McGuire to report her daughter Virginia Stone had just told her Bernie from ECDC had touched her, also put his penis in the girls mouth. At that time I asked Marcia if the girl had been examined by a doctor and she said she had not. I called Dr. Sheeley who was at her office, and explained we had another victim. Dr. Sheeley is the girl Doctor. Dr. Sheeley said to have the mother bring the girl right in. I them picked the girl and mother up and drove them to Dr. Sheeley office.
After the examine they were picked up and brought to the station. At this time I didn’t question the girl to much. She did tell me that Bernie put his dinky in her mouth. Also I showed her the photo lineup. She looked at the pictures and pointed to Bernard Baran’s picture and said ” that Bernie.”
A statement was taking from the mother and what the girl had told her etc. Also a copy of Dr. Sheeley report wad gotten and with this file.
We then brought the girl and mother to DA’s office were we met Atty. Downing. WE showed her the room that an interview would be taking place this coming week. The girl seemed to be able to talk about what happened without any problems. Dr. Sheeley said the same thing, but she gets tired talking about it after awhile.
Where Taken Pittsfield Police Dept. By Whom Det. Peter T. McGuire
Date & Time Taken 10/13/84 4.15 P.M.
I, Marcia Sidney Lopez am 26 years of age, born on 7/13/58
my address is 40 Kent Ave. my tel. no. 443 6670
my occupation is Going to College degree of education GED
I have three children (1) Virginia Stone D.O.B. 5/13/79 (2) Sonny Lopez D.O.B. 1/28/82 (3) Yolanda Lopez D.O.B. 5/10/83.
I have sent my daughter Virginia to ECDC since she was 3 yrs. Old. She left that school at the beginning of September 1984. At that time she was transferred to the Apple Tree School, at St. Marks School.
I was aware about Bernie Baran being arrested for molesting kids at ECDC. I also knew one of the victims was a Peter Hanes. I know Peter because his mother is a friend of mine. I go to school with her also. I was at her home (Julie Hanes) when Julie received the call from Dr. Sheeley that Peter had gonorrhea.
After hearing that Peter had contacted gonorrhea I questioned Virginia if Bernie had ever touched her. At the time I asked her about this my mother, brother, father and my brother girlfriend were in the same room. Virginia said ” no”, I don’t want to talk about it”, she then walked out of the room. I didn’t question her any more about it. Before she walked out of then room she did say one thing to me. She said Bernie brought little girls and boys to the bathroom, she said she seen him.
Today I was lying down and Virginia was lying down with me. I asked her if anyone ever touched her. She turned over away from me. I turn her back and told her its ok you can tell me what happened. She said ” Bernie did touch me mommy, I’am sorry for not telling you the truth”. I then asked her how and where he touched her. She pointed down to her vagina, and with her hand was making a rubbing motion. With the rubbing motion she said thats what he was doing. I asked her if he did anything else to her. She said ” yes mommy he pulled down his pants, and told me to lick it”. Then she said ” he stuck his dinky in my mouth”. She also said Bernie did it twice to her.
After hearing this i called Julie Hanes and told her what was just told to me. I was very upset and didn’t know where to turn. Julie told me I should call Det. McGuire. I then called Det. McGuire. He then set up an appointment with Dr. Sheeley. Det. McGuire picked us up and drove us to Dr. Sheeley office. Virginia was examined, she also told Dr. Sheeley what Bernie had done to her.
After I talked to my daughter today and she told me about what Bernie did to her my mother talked with Virginia also. My mother told me she asked Virginia when this happened, a long time ago or recently, Virginia said recently. My mother also asked her why she didn’t tell me, Virginia said something about Bernie threaten her, hitting her or something.
My mother also asked what Bernie did. Virginia told her that Bernie took her in the bathroom and stuck his your know what in her mouth, that it happened a couple of times.
Witnessed by Det. McGuire
Date and Time 5:30 p.m. 10-13-84
Date 10-15-84 Subject Interview of Virginia Stone
On this date, at approximately 12.15 P.M., an interview was conducted with the above 5 year old girl.
Trooper Scott conducted the interview in the Grand Jury room. In the room also was the girls mother, Marcia Stone Lopez. In the next room watching the interview on the monitor, was District Attorney Gerald Downing, Michael Harrigan of DSS and Detective McGuire.
The interview started with the girl telling that her name was Virginia Lopez Stone, that she now goes to school at St. marks and she lives on Kent Avenue.
The girl was asked, “Who is Bernie?” Her reply was he works at ECDC. Asked if Bernie was a boy, she replied, “He’s not a kid, he is a man”. Asked if Bernie played games, she said, “Yes, hide and seek and puzzles.” Trooper Scott asked her if she liked Bernie and she said, “No.” Why,was his question to which she replied, “Bernie is a bad boy.”
She was asked”While she was at ECDC, did anyone make you do something you did not want to do?” She replied, “Bernie.” She then said she did not want to talk about it because she did not want to think about it.
Trooper Scott then got the dolls and showed them to the girl. He told her the boy doll would be Bernie and the girl doll would be Virginia. Then she was asked, “What does Bernie say to Virginia? She replied, “Take your clothes off.” At this point, Trooper Scott took the clothes off the girl doll and showed the girl private parts on the doll (vagina). She was then asked to show where Bernie did bad things to her. She pointed to her vagina and said, “He touched me here.” Asked with what he touched her with, she pointed to the boy doll hand. She was then asked what she calls girls private parts and she said “pussy.”
She was then asked if Bernie did anything else to her, she said, “He put his dinky in her mouth.” At this point, the clothes (pants) were pulled down on the boy doll. Trooper Scott asked her to show him what Bernie’s dinky was. The girl pointed to the penis on the boy doll. Asked how many times, she said, “Twice” then said, “Once.”
The girl was then asked if Bernie told her not to tell anyone, she said “yes.” Asked what he said to her if she told, she replied, :”He would kill my mother.”
On 10/16/84 Michael Harrigan (DSS) reported that he had another victim in the ECDC case. He gave the victim name Annie Brown age 3 yrs. old. The mother is Lee Ann Bailey 57 Park St. no phone. Mr. Harrigan reports that he interviewed the girl at her house on 10/15/84 and at that time the girl told him Bernie touched her TuKu ( vagina)
On 10/19/84 at 3.30 P.M. I went to 57 Park St. and met with the girl and her mother. I first talked with the mother and found out the following:
Annie was enrolled in ECDC in June 1984. She was taken out by mother after the news of Bernard Baran’s arrest. While attended the school her teacher was Stepanie, teachers asst. was Eileen, and the aide was Bernard Baran. The girl went there from 9.00 A.M. till 4.00 P.M. She said after hearing about Bernie she brought her daughter to BMC E.R. to be examined on Saturday 10/13/84. Mother says that at that time daughter did tell Dr. ( woman, unknown name) that Bernie touched her TuKu. Mr. Harrigan will get a copy of doctors report.
I then talked with Annie. I first asked her if she went to ECDC and she said ” yes, but I don’t go there anymore”. Asked her who her teachers were and she replied Stepanie and Eileen, asked if anyone else was her teacher she said ” one more, ” Bernie”.
I then asked her if anyone at ECDC touched her with a bad touch. She then said ” Bernie touched my TuKu” While she said this she was pointed to her vagina area. I then asked her what he touched her with and she said ” he touched my TuKu with his finger”. Asked if anyone seen Bernie touch your TUKU she said ” Shanya seen him do it”. Asked her where it happened, which room she said ” upstairs with the toys”, then she said “downstairs”.
She was then asked if Bernie told her not to tell anyone, and she replied ” he told me not to tell my mommy, I can tell my mommy”.
Then I asked her if he pulled her pants down and she said “no”. Asked how he touched your TuKu, she said ” he put his hand inside”. With this she was putting her hand down the front of her pants.
The girl had a cabbage patch doll out at this time, she called Jodie. I asked her to show me how Bernie touched her, pretending Jodie was Annie. She then lifted the doll dress up, put her finger in area of doll vagina and said ” Bernie touched Jodie TuKu right there”.
At this the interview was completed. The mother agreed to next week having daughter at DA’s office to be interviewed on video tape. The girl was very friendly and had no trouble talking about the above.
Date & Time Taken 10-25-84 11:45 am
I, Debra Taikowski am 23 years of age, born on 10-5-61
my address is 82 Henry Ave my tel. no. 443-7712
my occupation is Polymatric degree of education is grad
My son Joe Larson has been going to ECDC for about 10 months. During that time I didn’t notice any problems. He was in Stephanies and Eileen and Burnie’s class. When we went to a meeting at ECDC about thecchildren being abused, They told us of certain signs to be looking for. I then realized that Johnny had some of these signs already. He was touching himself in his private areas and was overly active.
I started asking Joe questions but was not hurrying them. Some times Joe would talk and sometimes he wouldn’t. He did say that Burnie had touched him on his penis and on his bottom. This is when we talked to Pat Plumbo about putting Johnny on tape.
I was also presant when he was put on tape at the DA’s office and I heard the disclosures that were made at that time.
Time signed 12:04 PM Signature Debra Taikowski Timothy Larson
Witnessed by Joseph Collias